tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6086833995941525990.post3561705436045100241..comments2024-03-22T18:43:00.710-04:00Comments on Unam Sanctam Catholicam: Balthasar and Denial of the Ordinary MagisteriumBonifacehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10672810254075072214noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6086833995941525990.post-66355463318207394482013-11-20T23:04:06.654-05:002013-11-20T23:04:06.654-05:00I second what thegodinthe cave said. It is a forma...I second what thegodinthe cave said. It is a formally condemned pelagian (or at least semi-pelagian) idea to say that anyone can find the way of salvation by their own means. Since Christ is not a pelagian he cannot have meant "few find the way by their own means." Cf. Council of Orange II, 529, esp. can. 4-5.<br /><br />Also Council of Trent, Decree on Justification, can. 3: "If anyone says that without the predisposing inspiration of the Holy Ghost and without His help, man can believe, hope, love or be repentant as he ought, so that the grace of justification may be bestowed upon him, let him be anathema."<br /><br />Anselmnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6086833995941525990.post-58388836882348723942013-11-18T14:49:17.569-05:002013-11-18T14:49:17.569-05:00back when I was young DA referred to a type of hai...back when I was young DA referred to a type of haircut; that aside, Hear Jesus;<br /><br /><br />Luke 19:26,27 <i> But I say to you, that to every one that hath shall be given, and he shall abound: and from him that hath not, even that which he hath, shall be taken from him. <b>But as for those my enemies, who would not have me reign over them, bring them hither, and kill them before me.</b> </i><br />Mick Jagger Gathers No Mosquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12879499915093940176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6086833995941525990.post-29153629585241995702013-11-17T23:42:50.052-05:002013-11-17T23:42:50.052-05:00District Attorney,
Let's play this out a litt...District Attorney,<br /><br />Let's play this out a little bit.<br /><br />First, as someone mentioned above, it is not valid to simply say "Here's a plausible interpretation." If it is not consonant with the Church's tradition and the understanding of the sensus fidelium, such interpretations are thereby not plausible. And your interpretation isn't.<br /><br />Second, you're interpretation implicates our Lord of making a very broad mental reservation, which would be problematic. Imagine if I break a window. Then someone asks me, "Did you break that window?" and I respond, "No, I did not break that window," but what I <i>really</i> mean is, "No I did not break that window <i>with a bat."</i> This is a broad mental reservation that most moral theologians consider a form of lying. Our Lord, in saying, "few" when in reality He meant "everybody" would be making such a reservation which most would find unacceptable in the mouth of our Lord.<br /><br />Third, as others have pointed out, nobody is saved "on their own"; everybody is saved by God's grace. We also have to keep in mind that the Scriptures specifically say not only that few are saved, but that God chooses few. <br /><br />"Many are called, <b>but few are chosen"</b>, Matt. 22:14.<br /><br />I just don't think your theory is reasonable given history, tradition, and scriptural exegesis.Bonifacehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10672810254075072214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6086833995941525990.post-89703697786310435262013-11-17T23:34:49.368-05:002013-11-17T23:34:49.368-05:00District Attorney,
The first part of what I said i...District Attorney,<br />The first part of what I said is simply a rejection of pelagianism or semi-pelagianism.<br />The second part of what I said is that constant teaching of scripture, Augustine, Aquinas, and the writings of the saints. While Molina would disagree, it certainly is not Jansenism; rather, it is the main body of Catholic tradition.<br /><br />CarlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6086833995941525990.post-38528585192977993072013-11-17T23:07:48.836-05:002013-11-17T23:07:48.836-05:00It doesn't follow from the statement though. ...It doesn't follow from the statement though. There isn't anything that would lead us to add those interpretations into that scripture. Just read what it says and accept it. Reading scripture isn't a contest to see who can interpret all of it to their own tastes, hopes, wishes and dreams. <br /> I agree with cave. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11679981021081052320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6086833995941525990.post-19761081087196652142013-11-17T22:08:29.415-05:002013-11-17T22:08:29.415-05:00DA,
Unless you're just playing devil's ad...DA, <br />Unless you're just playing devil's advocate, you're completely missing the point of this post. Aside from the other scriptural data and the sensus fidelium, as adumbrated in the two previous posts, there is no orthodox footing for your specious eisegesis *because the ordinary magisterium* has never espoused such a teaching. Since there are dogmatic reasons to heed the OM, it follows that there are dogmatic reasons to heed the OM's reading of the passages to which you appeal.Codgitator (Cadgertator)https://www.blogger.com/profile/00872093788960965392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6086833995941525990.post-21002771036344256772013-11-17T03:07:16.555-05:002013-11-17T03:07:16.555-05:00Rebecca:
You're absolutely right. I'm &qu...Rebecca:<br /><br />You're absolutely right. I'm "adding." That is, I'm adding an interpretation, or something that might, possibly, follow from the statement.<br /><br />Cave:<br /><br />You're getting Jansenist on me!District Attorneynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6086833995941525990.post-16932015663033776312013-11-16T20:15:47.461-05:002013-11-16T20:15:47.461-05:00District Attorney, the first interpretation cannot...District Attorney, the first interpretation cannot be because no one (not few people) finds God by their own means; anyone who finds him does so because God leads them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6086833995941525990.post-723802333019591692013-11-16T02:31:01.899-05:002013-11-16T02:31:01.899-05:00Unfortunately, district attorney, that's not w...<br />Unfortunately, district attorney, that's not what the scripture says and you are just adding stuff to it that isn't there. <br /><br />Good post. I look forward to the next one! Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11679981021081052320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6086833995941525990.post-50522556207077000882013-11-15T08:34:32.755-05:002013-11-15T08:34:32.755-05:00An objection, "Few people there are who find ...An objection, "Few people there are who find it [by their own means], but maybe God leads everyone else there." And, "They enter through the broad gate, but that doesn't mean God lets them fulfill it."District Attorneynoreply@blogger.com