tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6086833995941525990.post4040655788249338984..comments2024-03-22T18:43:00.710-04:00Comments on Unam Sanctam Catholicam: Defective form in SSPX ordinations? I don't think so.Bonifacehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10672810254075072214noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6086833995941525990.post-8438829223355061922008-11-11T23:06:00.000-05:002008-11-11T23:06:00.000-05:00I read this and thought back to Cardinal Lienart w...I read this and thought back to Cardinal Lienart who ordained Archbishop Lefebvre a priest, and consecrated him a Bishop. There has been much written about him possibly being a freemason and not validly conferring sacraments to Lefebvre. ONE of the arguments suggesting the ordination was valid was that though Lienart was the principal consecrator there were two other bishops present, if they were not actually conferring the sacrament though, could this call into question the Lefebvre line of bishops and priests?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6086833995941525990.post-3026337104841091502008-11-11T15:26:00.000-05:002008-11-11T15:26:00.000-05:00Jerry-I actually did not think about Bishop de Cas...Jerry-<BR/><BR/>I actually did not think about Bishop de Castro Meyer, but I don't think it affects the argument since the person in question asserted that there had to be THREE bishops performing the consecration.<BR/><BR/>Japhy-<BR/><BR/>As to your question, I'll have to think about it...however, in your example, though the lack of a dispensation can mean invalidity, I think we have to ask, "What is being dispensed from?" It is not the form, because (unless I am mistaken) the form of matrimony is the exchange of vows ("I do", CCC 1626-1628) and the matter is the mutual consent and the covenant contracted by the two parties, coupled with the consummation of the marriage (CCC 1626, 1640). <BR/><BR/>When a dispensation is granted, it is not dispensing with the matter or the form, but only the canonical obligation for the ceremony to be done a certain way, which is a matter of positive ecclesiastical law. However, why failrue to obtain a dispensation results in invalidity and not just illicitness (is that a word?) is something I have not fully grasped.Philliphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07773961874941706784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6086833995941525990.post-77805702515368543262008-11-11T08:12:00.000-05:002008-11-11T08:12:00.000-05:00As this is his year, please wake up Paul, and tell...As this is his year, please wake up Paul, and tell him he needs help to lay-on-hands with Timothy. Otherwise we can perhaps discredit "faith alone", huh?<BR/><BR/>:)<BR/><BR/>By the way, I once attended a wedding where 7 priests and 2 bishops concelebrated..... awesome. However, I still doubt the validity of the two bishops. Me thinks they may have been imposters..... neither ever moved diagonally.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6086833995941525990.post-26360511316100587272008-11-11T07:40:00.000-05:002008-11-11T07:40:00.000-05:00I find it odd that you do not mention that there w...I find it odd that you do not mention that there were two bishops at the SSPX consecrations - Bp de Castro Meyer also was present and also incurred excommunication for this. <BR/><BR/>JerryJerryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139184284193566458noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6086833995941525990.post-79200564934696320912008-11-10T22:04:00.000-05:002008-11-10T22:04:00.000-05:00I would only ask, against reason #3: isn't a sacr...I would only ask, against reason #3: isn't a sacrament performed without a necessary dispensation invalid? For example, isn't a marriage between a Catholic and a non-Catholic, without the necessary dispensation, an invalid marriage?<BR/><BR/>Your other reasons seem rather airtight to me (a layman with very little knowledge in these areas).Jeffrey Pinyanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08758581112217835988noreply@blogger.com