tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6086833995941525990.post1414423634726225441..comments2024-03-22T18:43:00.710-04:00Comments on Unam Sanctam Catholicam: In Praise of Virginity? Anybody?Bonifacehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10672810254075072214noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6086833995941525990.post-18138615632258409052013-12-08T17:15:03.119-05:002013-12-08T17:15:03.119-05:00Are you looking for the Church's appreciation ...Are you looking for the Church's appreciation of celibacy or are you seeking for Her appreciation of virginity? As you know, consecrated virginity reflects the vocation of the Church Herself in the person of female virgins consecrated by their Bishops in the ancient Order of Virgins. Virginity, celibacy, continence, and chastity are not synonymous terms. A virgin is one who has been continent all her life. A consecrated virgin is a virgin who has been consecrated as a virgin, bride, and mother by her bishop (this, please note, is not the same definition of a religious woman who vows poverty, chastity, and obedience). A celibate is one who has decided at some point to renounce future marriage. A continent person is one who does not engage in sexual relations. A person under the promise or vow of chastity is one who has agreed before God to remain continent from that time forward. Celibacy in clerics is praised because Our Lord was celibate (and virginal), and it imitates His life more perfectly. Virginity in women is praised because it reflects the Church's nature more perfectly than widowed or married chastity.SacraVirgonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6086833995941525990.post-31026743995698850392013-06-02T22:13:47.485-04:002013-06-02T22:13:47.485-04:00http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03481a.htm
This ha...http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03481a.htm<br />This has a decent short history of celibacy east and west. Of course there are many who would take more firm positions than this. E.g. Greek orthodox typically accept the false council of quintisext which declared that no law could be made requiring priestly celibacy. I might on th other hand argue based on st Peter leaving his wife, as well as the testimony of Jerome and other saints from his time, that even before celibacy became the universal norm it was already required most places that a priest cease to live as a husband, so that the present discipline of eastern Catholics is something like a perpetual indult to remove barriers to reunion (worth noting in that connection that uniate churches have sometimes adopted celibacy but w haven't made any move in th other direction, at least not until the married deacons after vii). Whatever the solution to these difficulties, both disciplines are obviously allowed.<br /><br />It may be worth noting that many eastern Christians I've met have a more angelic view of virginity than we do because of the centrality of monasticism in the Christian east, so they sometimes have a view more like that recommended in the post even though they don't require celibacy of their priests. Eric Brookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11638730349918691492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6086833995941525990.post-59287261709849491082013-06-01T06:55:37.701-04:002013-06-01T06:55:37.701-04:00I've always kept near me the little book _The ...I've always kept near me the little book _The Case of Clerical Celibacy: Its Historical Development & Theological Foundations_ by Alfons Maria Cardinal Stickler. Great book!Fr. S.A.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6086833995941525990.post-86365180660375163222013-05-30T07:47:33.296-04:002013-05-30T07:47:33.296-04:00a number of years ago as I breakfasted in a cafe i...a number of years ago as I breakfasted in a cafe in Dingle town I overheard some priests at the next table, discussing the issue of celibacy. I became a little frustrated with their insipid reasoning and broke in on their conversation. I gave them a little lecture on the necessity of celibacy not just for the religious but also for the lay man and woman as a offering of penance. And this is the interesting part of my story. One of the priests turned to me and sadly said, "Oh yes. You can say these things but if we priests were to say them we would find our churches empty." christabelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02396038911286326572noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6086833995941525990.post-45895236505552229632013-05-29T10:56:00.956-04:002013-05-29T10:56:00.956-04:00Sure. Post your email. I will not publish the comm...Sure. Post your email. I will not publish the comment.Bonifacehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10672810254075072214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6086833995941525990.post-59153471114437866112013-05-29T10:31:24.883-04:002013-05-29T10:31:24.883-04:00My mother went through RCIA the year after I did. ...My mother went through RCIA the year after I did. She told me that one of the catechumens asked "Why can't priests be married?" Father began his answer with, "Personally, I think married men can be priests." With shepherds like these...<br /><br />In my little biography of Pope St. Pius V, there's a section where some within the Church are urging him to relax the discipline on celibacy to enlarge the pool for priestly candidates. He vigorously shot them down.Beefy Levinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10672190212311744730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6086833995941525990.post-76802515025345640882013-05-29T10:14:39.272-04:002013-05-29T10:14:39.272-04:00Boniface,
Is it possible to have direct, private ...Boniface,<br /><br />Is it possible to have direct, private email contact with you in some manner to discuss some Catholic contemporary issues in more detail?Ralphnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6086833995941525990.post-13876112352181473982013-05-29T09:24:29.686-04:002013-05-29T09:24:29.686-04:00In absence of any data about how many Eastern prie...In absence of any data about how many Eastern priests are married, how it works out over there, and what the problems are, I could not make a positive judgment. I would say that celibacy should be a norm, not an exception. The precise legal status should be left up to them. Bonifacehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10672810254075072214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6086833995941525990.post-57618394160764034022013-05-29T09:15:13.232-04:002013-05-29T09:15:13.232-04:00Thanks, Boniface.
My question, I suppose, is, in ...Thanks, Boniface.<br /><br />My question, I suppose, is, in an ideal world, would we or should we want to see the Eastern rites make celibacy the required, standard norm for their priesthood?Ralphnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6086833995941525990.post-42918614337698845402013-05-29T08:40:24.627-04:002013-05-29T08:40:24.627-04:00The issue is really not different; in the East, th...The issue is really not different; in the East, they acknowledge the superiority of virginity as well, they just do not make it mandatory.<br /><br />Even there, they do not "allow priests to marry." Married men may become priests, but priests may not marry. It is my understanding that bishops must be celibate as well. This is not what people are clamoring for in the west - here folks actually want priests to be able to marry. If we were to suddenly adopt the practice of the Eastern Churches tomorrow, still, not a single priest could marry because in the East priests cannot get married. I think people need to understand that the Eastern discipline is not the same thing as having a "married priesthood", and also realize that what has worked in one Tradition may not be able to be so easily transplanted to another, especially when the motivations for wanting a married priesthood are so questionable here,.Bonifacehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10672810254075072214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6086833995941525990.post-83117215639141558382013-05-29T08:33:30.090-04:002013-05-29T08:33:30.090-04:00Thanks, Boniface.
May I ask, not meaning to stray...Thanks, Boniface.<br /><br />May I ask, not meaning to stray too much off topic, what your view is of a married priesthood in the Eastern rites?Ralphnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6086833995941525990.post-24240529574586452982013-05-29T08:23:50.753-04:002013-05-29T08:23:50.753-04:00Ralph-
Because we know that not everybody will em...Ralph-<br /><br />Because we know that not everybody will embrace it. The goal is not to have as many human beings as possible live celibate, but, in our Lord's words, to have as many people accept it who can accept it (Matt. 19:12). But if it is never preached and never glorified, how will they rightfully discern whether they can accept it?<br /><br />The superiority and preference of virginity over marriage is a teaching of the Bible itself:<br /><br />" I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord’s affairs—how he can please the Lord. But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife— and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord’s affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world—how she can please her husband. I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord." (1 Cor. 7:32-35)<br /><br />The Church has also defined this:<br /><br />In Session 24, Canon 10 the Council of Trent declared:<br /><br />"CANON X.-If any one saith, that the marriage state is to be placed above the state of virginity, or of celibacy, and that it is not better and more blessed to remain in virginity, or in celibacy, than to be united in matrimony; let him be anathema."<br /><br />This is not really a matter of opinion. It is a constant teaching of our Faith that is just getting ignored.Bonifacehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10672810254075072214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6086833995941525990.post-29789716606664843072013-05-29T07:03:01.132-04:002013-05-29T07:03:01.132-04:00Question: if virginity is an ideal form of life th...Question: if virginity is an ideal form of life that is superior to matrimony, and we are supposed to encourage as many as possible to embrace it, then how will the human race re-produce and endure?Ralphnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6086833995941525990.post-51553248469595456052013-05-29T02:30:27.607-04:002013-05-29T02:30:27.607-04:00Excellent, Boniface! Precisely what is needed. Per...Excellent, Boniface! Precisely what is needed. Perhaps you could assemble a small anthology of past praises by the great Fathers, Saints and Doctors to inspire action? This could then be forwarded to a thousand bishops! How one longs to hear them sing the praises of virginity in the public square!Crouchbacknoreply@blogger.com