Saturday, August 31, 2024

Why I'm not Orthodox


Everytime I post something on my YouTube channel, there are always a band of obnoxious OrthoBros who show up in the comments chiding me for not being Orthodox, or nagging me to convert. It's super annoying. They must think that because I am critical of the current state of Catholicism that I'm on the verge of going Orthodox or something. I guess that is a thing for some Catholics; I often see comments from Catholics who, when responding to bad news in the Church, will say something like, "Looks like it's almost time to go Orthodox!" If your big plan is to "go Orthodox" when things get "bad enough" in the Catholic Church, then you're already a bad Orthodox—because if you really believed the claims of Orthodoxy enough to join it, then you would convert right now, not at some hypothetical future when things get "bad enough" with Rome. 

At any rate, I am not interesting in "going Orthodox." Nothing could be further from my mind, and in this article I want to lay out my reasons why I'm not Orthodox nor considering it. This article will not be an anti-Orthodox apologetic; there are many others who handle that more competently than I, and honestly, I have no interest in it. Rather, this will be a run-down of reasons why I am personally unmoved by the claims of Orthodoxy.

1. Completely Different Theology

This really merits an entirely separate post, but to sum it up, Orthodox theology is radically different than Catholic theology. This actually came as a surprise to me when I first discovered it, because during my formation as a Catholic—steeped in what I might call John Paul II's paradigm of ecumenism—I did not realize that the Orthodox actually have an entirely different theology than we do. JP2 made it seem like reunion was just a matter of...good will. I naively thought the Orthodox believed all the same things as Catholics, but just with a different liturgy and no pope. I have since noticed this is a common point of ignorance among Catholics, whose minds have frozen Orthodoxy in 1054 and do not realize there has been substantial theological development in the East since then. 

To embrace Orthodoxy, then, is not merely to keep the same Faith but with a different liturgy and no pope; it's to embrace an entirely different theological framework for understanding Christianity—in terms of spirituality, Trinitarianism, Holy Orders, the afterlife, sin, grace, Christ's humanity, and a whole host of other issues where the Orthodox hold opinions at variance with Catholics. Catholics who talk as if the only differences separating us are cultural and not dogmatic are profoundly ignorant of the ways Orthodoxy and Catholicism have diverged since the schism. As as I fundamentally don't accept these theological positions, there's no way I am going to adopt them.

2. Unconvincing History

I am not and have never been convinced by any Orthodox historical arguments relating to the papacy, the antiquity of the Church of Constantinople, or its place within the ancient Pentarchy of churches. I've never even been remotely convinced on this front, and I am about as likely to believe St. Andrew founded the church in Byzantium as I am to buy Joseph Smith's golden plate story—and the insistence that the pre-Norman Irish were Orthodox is risible. I've simply not found the Orthodox historical argument compelling, neither on the major issues nor even many of ancillary ones (e.g. priestly celibacy).  

Also, no, I am not interested in expanding on the details of this and getting into some historical tit-for-tat in the comments. I will simply say I've never read any historical apologetic for Orthodoxy that is compelling or even that I take seriously.

3. Autocephaly is Not All Its Cracked Up to Be

Every mode of Church governance has its problems. We are all aware of the results of Protestant "private interpretation." And we are getting a first-hand experience in the challenges posed by an out of control papal monarchy. But autocephaly is not some magic bullet to fix all the problems of ecclesiasical governance. The Eastern Church was only able to maintain some semblance of union so long as the Byzantine Empire was around to enforce it. After the fall of Byzantium, the Eastern communion started to fragment around national lines, with every kingdom demanding autocephaly. If you look at the dates the Orthodox churches became autocephalus, they are ever tied to some secession among the secular kingdoms they were part of. They are an Eastern iteration of Anglicanism, nationalist churches organized around ethnic lines. And there's not even a consensus within Orthodoxy on what conditions must be met for autocephaly to be granted, and sorting out who is in communion with whom requires a flow chart. The emergence of an autocephalus church always entails decades of infighting, recrimination, and breaks in communion until the entire Orthodox world finally just sighs and accepts it as a fait accompli.

There's no perfect form of Church governance, and you're just switching one set of issues for another when you move from the papacy to autocephaly. Plus I simply don't believe that's the model of Church governance willed by Christ, just like I don't accept that the invisible church of Protestantism is what God wills. 

4. Ethnic Exclusivity

I have several friends who have switched from Catholicism to Orthodoxy, and every single one (that I have talked to about it, at least) has expressed a sense of alientation, because the Orthodox communion is considerably more ethnically-oriented than they were prepared for. Even in the United States, congregations are deeply rooted in ethnic identity, and my converts friends have spoken of still be considered "not one of us" years after entering Orthodoxy, as they were not Russian, or Serbian, or Bulgarian or whatever. What I read between the lines talking with them is that they miss the Catholicity of Catholicism, which in Orthodoxy is basically an abstraction buried and enfolded within centuries of ethnic identity. 

5. Orthodox Spirituality is Boring

This is admittedly subjective—but, then again, these are my reasons why I am not Orthodox, so subjectivity is fine. I have always found Orthodox spiritual writing to be profoundly boring. The Orthodox spiritual tradition just does not interest me. I completely reject Hesychasm, and I'm a bit skeptical of leaning too heavily into the apophatic way. I don't find post-Schism Orthodox spiritual writing profound, nor comparable to reading, say, St. Therese of Lisieux, or even lesser Western mystics like Richard Rolle or Aelred of Rivaulx. I understand that it's nourishing to some people, but not to me; to me it's about as insightful as an emo kid's journal. So, to each is own. 

I'm willing to bet, too, that, pound for pound, the West has more mystics than the East. But I'll leave that off for another time.

6. Orthodoxy's Fundamentally Anti-Western Orientation

In 1980, the Holy Synod of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia (ROCOR) held a meeting to discuss the goofy doctrine of aerial toll houses. A statement of this synod exemplifies the current attitude of Orthodox towards the West: the synod stated that it was natural for an Orthodox person to fear the exposure to western influence in theological matters. (1) This statement is telling, as it demonstrates the default Orthodox attitude relating to the West is one of fear, suspicion, and hostility.

I find this attitude appalling. It reflects a manifestly different approach than we Catholics have. Catholics remain deeply appreciative of the entire Eastern tradition, in its art, spirituality, and liturgy. Most devout Catholics have at least one icon in their home or have read books by some Eastern mystic or theologian. Of course, these things are not the exclusive domain of the Eastern Orthodox; Eastern Catholics also share this rich heritage. The point is that the West demonstrates an openness to the East that is not reciprocated. To this day, it is common for Orthodox to view Catholics as heretics, while Catholics view them simply as schismatics, if that. To be Orthodox, therefore, would require not just adopting Eastern ways but repudiating Western influences, which as a Westerner who has been profoundly nurtured by those influences, I am absolutely unwilling to do.

7. The Liturgy

The Orthodox have an ancient and beautiful liturgy. But that's no argument in favor of anything; lots of religious groups have impressive ceremonies. The fact is, however impressive the liturgies of Orthodoxy, they are not my liturgies; they are not my home. I am a Westerner, by blood, baptism, and formation. And my home is in the Roman Rite. I'm not some kind of liturgy addict just looking to get his fix by finding reverent liturgies. Your ancient liturgy may be reverent and beautiful, but it's not mine; and it means nothing to me if it is not in communion with Peter.

8. Lack of Attraction

If I had to sum up why I am not Orthodox, I would conclude by saying, it just doesn't attract me at all. Some Catholics seem to "wrestle" with Orthodoxy—they find its arguments compelling, its liturgy allures them, and they devote hours to slinging ink in the debate between Catholics and Orthodox. That's not me. Orthodoxy is so unappealing to me I've never even felt the need to get involved in apologetics to argue against it, just like I don't feel the need to refute Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons. Orthodox are, of course, not comparable to those sects due to their antiquity, but they are comparable for me in that I am as unlikely to convert to Orthodoxy as to join the Watchtower Society. Orthodoxy has never exerted any attractive force on me whatsoever. I don't wrestle with it, I'm not drawn by it, and I don't see it as some escape hatch. In fact, the more I learn about it, the more I dislike it. It's simply a non-issue to me. I mean no disrespect to my Orthodox friends or readers, whom I love and respect as people, but I feel this needs to be said because I'm tired of OrthoBros presuming that I'm somehow on the cusp of Orthodoxy and need to be prodded. I have less than zero interest in Orthodoxy.

  

(1) "The Debate Over Aerial Toll-Houses." Orthodoxinfo.com. Retrieved 2020-07-10. (http://orthodoxinfo.com/death/tollhouse_debate.aspx). "Fearing, as is natural for an Orthodox person, the possibility of an Western or other non-Orthodox influence, etc."

18 comments:

  1. I could never abide with a married "priest" . I could perhaps understand a converted pastor who perhaps was a widow becoming a hermit brother- yet even that might contaminate the brethren. It's a scandal for married pastors to convert and wear the mantle of a Catholic priest- and they seem quite jolly which again is suspect- what exactly are their motivations, I wonder.

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    1. You need to study the history of a celibate priesthood. It wasn’t always the case and it’s one of the things that fostered the schism.

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    2. The ApostolicOrigins of Priestly Celibacy by Cochini shows the Apostolicity of the Western practice

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    3. Eastern Catholics also have married priests lol

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    4. You need to study the history of a celibate priesthood. It wasn’t always the case and it’s one of the things that fostered the schism.

      Married men were allowed to become priests, but they were expected to remain continent after ordination. The Western practice of an all-celibate priesthood and the Eastern practice of priests having children are both modifications of the original rule.

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  2. Well-written article, for which I am thankful. For the previous anonymous respondent who simply commented about married clergy, why? Your comment addresses the situation of St. Peter. Did you know St. Hilary of Poitiers was a married cleric, not merely a priest, but even elevated to a bishop? Let the exception to the rule simply be that. Yes, I am one of them, and there are very few around the Western Church. It takes papal dispensation, and my file went to the desk of Pope Benedict XVI. We have to be vetted to a much greater extent than normal, celibate diocesan clergy. The balancing act is tremendous, and the life is very sacrificial, in ways you might not even think about. Regarding this article, at least we hold a Catholic view of the sanctity of marriage, not allowing for the multiples and divergences seen now in Orthodoxy.

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    1. I once used to attend Mass where the priest was married, having converted to the Catholic Church and in my opinion married priests have much that is good to offer the Church.

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  3. Re: "I'm willing to bet, too, that, pound for pound, the West has more mystics than the East," it reminds me of the part in The Abolition Of Man where CS Lewis says that the academics of his day didn't have heads any bigger than those of other men, they just seemed that way because of their abnormally small chests. I think something is true with Eastern Orthodoxy -- they don't actually have a better (richer, deeper) mystical tradition than Catholicism, but because they don't have an intellectual tradition comparable to Catholic scholasticism, the mystical side of their theology gets more focus.

    Re: points 4 and 6, it reminds me of someone on Twitter who said that everybody really recognises that the Catholic Church is universal in a way that the Orthodox Church isn't (or perhaps we should say the Orthodox Churches aren't), and that the reason why Catholics tend to be so much more in favour of ecumenism is that we all know any reunion would result in the Orthodox becoming Catholic, not in Catholics becoming Orthodox.

    Also re: 4, although Orthodox historical claims are less unconvincing than Protestant ones, I will give Protestants credit for actually evangelising. Missionary activity has been a major part of the Protestant story since at least the 19th century; the Orthodox keep pointing to Herman of Alaska because they don't really have anyone else. Which is one of the main reasons why I personally could never become Orthodox -- how can they claim to be the true Church when they completely neglect the Great Commission?

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  4. I would be grateful to anyone who could point me to some online resource elaborating on point no. 1.

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  5. To the Anon who all day has kept trying to post comments attacking Fr. Ken for being married and making base accusations against him (a) I'm not publishing any of your comments, (b) you are disgusting (c) do you have a mental disorder?

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  6. This was great (and hilarious). I'll admit I've enjoyed some EO podcasts/videos over the years, but I've never understood the appeal of their theology. Even if I can't always relate to the writings of some scholastics, their complete absence in the EO tradition is palpable...like a bunch of artists desperately trying to measure something using their feelings, but they just hiss at the guy handing them a ruler.

    And I'm surprised how common a rejection of original sin is in EO circles today. In their desperate attempt to prove how un-Western they are, so many of them seem to be veering straight toward Pelagianism. The Council of Carthage was pretty clear on this one...

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    1. Ikr? And they insist that we believe in a version of Original Sin that we don't. They insist that we believe that every individual who is born is *personally* culpable for Adam's sin, and then repudiate that strawman and act like they are repudiating Original Sin.

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  7. This analysis is written as if by a ten year old, it’s that basic.

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    1. Nice. That means even a ten year old can see why there's no appeal in Orthodoxy.

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  8. Fundamentally, they suffer from the same problem as the Protestants: they rely on scripture-plus-the-fathers alone, which is essentially the same as relying on scripture alone: you have no living authority to resolve disputes.

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  9. “They are an Eastern iteration of Anglicanism”

    OUCH

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  10. It's funny, I became Orthodox precisely because it's anti-Western and I'm saying that as a Westerner. This? You want me to defend this?

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